Identity 101: Part 1 - Privilege and Identity

An IG Live Series around Identity and Meaning

How do I define what my identity is? How do I know if I have ‘privilege’? What does it mean to be seen?

Linet & Brenda broadcast a series of laid back conversations where they explored the waters of identity, privilege, and anti-oppression work. These open discussions led audiences through an exploration of themselves, their relationships, and how they move through the world, culminating in a call to engage in anti-oppression through acknowledging the challenges, realities, and hope of our place in the world. 

Free to the public, this series of open conversations on Instagram offered a prism of thought, feeling, and learning to lead audiences through an exploration of themselves.

Follow the conversation by checking out ID 101 Part 2 video and ID 101 Part 3 video.

Brenda, she/her(s), is a full-time Anti-Oppression Consultant & Facilitator. Born in Mexico City, but partially raised in India, traveled the world, middle school in South Carolina, high school in Wales, and college in Massachusetts, Brenda identifies as a queer transnational woman of color. After Hampshire College, Brenda experienced diverse roles in advocacy as a youth program coordinator at a refugee resettlement organization, later as a bilingual counselor for survivors and victims of intimate partner violence, and finally as peer recovery coach. Brenda built In.Visible Paradigms to support white allies in their connection to the work, community, and movement of anti-oppression. Her goal is to go beyond the basics and facilitate transformative spaces for white allies to move forward in the journey of turning silence into language and action (Audre Lorde). Brenda is also involved with the Anti-Racism Collaborative and the Equity Consultants of Colorado.

Linet (she/her) is the Co-Executive Director of the Unconscious Bias Project (UBP). Linet was born in Bogotá, Colombia and grew up in Nigeria, France, Venezuela, and completed her education in the US. She is a PhD scientist turned diversity, equity and inclusion professional. Throughout life, she witnessed and experienced the harm caused by toxic workplaces, discrimination, and bullying. This fueled her passion to grow more inclusive and equitable spaces including co-founding the Texas A&M University Language Learning Institute, co-developing the first annual diversity workshop for UC San Francisco’s graduate division, and advocating for childcare grants for graduate student parents. Her passion became her career when she co-founded UBP, where she now works with her co-ED, volunteers, advisors, and community members to bring creative, accessible, and evidence-based programs to reduce bias and unconscious bias to workplaces and classrooms centering empowerment and sustainable action.

Find out about our event sponsorship opportunities!

Transcript

Brenda [00:00]: Welcome. Come on in. Welcome to our first of three IG live series around identity with Dr. Linet from the Unconscious Bias Project. Join in, settle in, right? I know when I hear some IG lives, I'm carrying them around like a podcast. Feel free to do what you need to do. Full disclosure. I got my second shot yesterday, and I am feeling quite raw, a little tender, nonetheless I'm here and so are those feelings. So they are going to be informing how I engage with you all. But come on in, I'm excited that you're here. Dr. Linet from the Unconscious Bias Project will be joining us soon. And we're going to kick off our conversation today talking about identity and privilege.

So let's see if... here we are. We're going to be getting some questions, we're going to be answering some questions.

Linet [01:05]: Hola, can you hear me? 

Brenda [01:10]: Yes. Happy thunderstorm. I hope. 

Linet [01:14]: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Every time it rains in New Mexico, it's like, I dunno. It's, it's, it's truly an amazing experience. I love the rain, especially the warm rain. 

Brenda [01:25]: Oh yes. Well, I was just sharing with folks that today's our kickoff for getting this boat rolling. 

Linet [01:32]: I’m so excited. I'm so excited.

I'm actually in Albuquerque right now of all places. And so I'm in the middle of this rainstorm outside in Albuquerque. So if the signal cuts out, I'll join you back in a bit, but I'm at least in a dry spot. 

Brenda [01:57]: Sounds great. Grab a seat. Grab some tea. Can we just get started, get some questions and then when 

Linet [2:10]: It's happening.

Yeah, we got a lot of wind and rain now. Actually I have something for folks to prepare if you're joining us now. As you're preparing your tea, go ahead and grab a piece of paper and a pen or a marker. We're going to do a quick little activity together. Once we get ready to start. I think we could start with some intros and then read the intro.

Once people join in, I'll be relying on you to guide the conversation because I wasn't able to open up the questions at the same time. 

Brenda [02:45]: No worries. Yeah. Transparency moments. We are going to be starting with a check-in. By the personal check-in, I got my second shot yesterday and I'm feeling quite raw and tender and that's in the room with me as I engage with you all.

But we are going, yeah, let's see. How are you doing Linet? 

Linet [03:10]: I’m doing well, I'm sort of laughing at myself with my big plan of doing this IG live out in Albuquerque. I'm actually in the middle of the zoo, which is like another experience altogether. So if y'all can see, you can see there are flamingos in the back.

So I'm excited. I have to say like I'm a little, I have that  anticipation and excitement. I really feel you for having taken the second shot. It was definitely a doozy for me. It knocked me out for a couple of days. So I hope you are able to be flexible and gentle with yourself. 

Brenda [03:53]: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Well, I think it's a great time to do the activity. I know I have my piece of paper. I hope that that size works, right? 

Linet [04:05]: Yeah, that works. That definitely works. So for folks joining us that don't know me my name is Dr. Linet Mera. You can tell me Linet, I am the co-executive director of Unconscious Bias Project .

And if you can notice Lexicontiresia, who is joining us in this group, she's my Co-ED as well. So it's really nice to have Alexis in the group.

The Unconscious Bias Project works to create accessible programs, to reduce bias and unconscious bias in workplaces and classrooms. And the activity that we're about to start is a very simple, very easy activity that can be really revealing. So I think before we get started, everybody just take a collective deep breath, sort of settle into our bodies. Settle into our hearts and our true self. And so on your piece of paper, go ahead and draw a circle large enough that you can put in a few pieces of paper. Oh. So for folks that just joined us, we're doing a little activity. So go ahead and grab a piece of paper and draw a nice big circle.

Yep. Brenda's got hers too. And what we’re gonna do, just imagine, you know, whatever was your last people interaction, whether it was virtual or it was in person. Think of how we would introduce yourself to somebody in like 10 to 15 seconds. Just go ahead and write down how you would introduce yourself to somebody for like 10 seconds.

So I'll keep time. So go ahead and write down a few words that you would use to describe yourself if you're meeting somebody for the first time and it could be whatever scenario you want. It could be a business meeting, could be a meeting at a pub. 

Brenda [06:03]: I like this question. 

Linet [06:06]: Yeah. And so get another few seconds to write something down.

Okay. Now stop. It's not a lot of time, but if you think about it, when you're introducing yourself to somebody you're like, “Hi, I'm so-and-so and this is what I do, or this is where I'm from.” Or, you know, if you're there with your family, like I'm the mom of, or the daughter of, or whatever, and then you just move on.

So here's what I wrote down in mine. If you can read that chicken scratch. I wrote “scientist, Colombian, DEI practitioner, and mom.” So those are the things that sort of came up from the top of my head. How about you, Brenda? What did you write down? 

Brenda [06:49]: I'm an overthinker. So I only know, well, you're at one, and it was also an anti-oppression practitioner.

Yeah. 

Linet [06:59]: Good. And, and that's really what it usually is, right? You're not, when you introduce yourself to somebody, you're not like spilling out, like, this is how old I am, and this is, you know, these are, you know, X or Y things that I've dealt with in my life. You just sort of, you, it, you began that introduction.

And so, this exercise is really meant to push us to think of what is outside that circle that you didn't mention. So for example, I wrote “scientist, Colombian, DEI practitioner, and mom.” I didn't write that I am heterosexual. I didn't write that. I'm able-bodied I didn't write that I'm cisgender I didn't write that I’m white-passing.

I didn't write. Although I am not fully neuro-typical I didn't write that. I deal with anxiety and depression on and off. So that's right. Neuroatypical. Hmm. I didn't talk about being housed. I didn't talk about my age. I didn't talk about my race. Right. The white-passing thing, race piece. Let's see, what else did I not talk about?

I didn’t talk about my socioeconomic status, either. I didn't talk about the languages I speak or that I am fluent in English, as you can tell now, but you might not know that I also speak French and Spanish, and Spanish is my mother tongue.

Ooh. So once you start writing out all of the different things that are outside your circle, This is - actually the things that are inside the circle are what we identify with and the things that are outside the circle could be places where we hold privilege. So for example, I didn't mention that I was able bodied and definitely being able-bodied is a place where I hold privilege.

I wrote that I'm cisgender, that is someplace that I also hold privilege. I wrote that… I didn't write that I'm white passing and that that's definitely something where I hold privilege. Even though I have experienced racism for being Colombian or speaking Spanish. Definitely the white-passing piece is the place where I hold a privilege.

And actually it's one of the, one of the reasons why I do the work I do is because I have that power to pass between he two. How about you? What did you not write? Are you thinking about privilege? 

Brenda [09:30]: I think looking at the identities in the center, these are identities that. Or for, or that I think, have to think about, as you're saying, because I navigate the world and I have to navigate it to survive, navigate it to live right. Just exist. And I definitely think the identities on the outside, some of the ones that I'm still unpacking, that other things that are still like, where do you fall? And my relationship, I think one of the things that isn't here but is current, things I'm grappling with are my identity as Mexican and understanding decolonization in Mexico and my identity there.

So that's floating above the paper. But yeah, the personal and all these different social constructed identities and some very personal, like intimate identities as well. Love this. 

Linet [10:35]: Yeah, absolutely. One other thing that I didn’t write, that I'm also grappling and thinking about and dealing with is, I relatively recently found out that I am almost 40% of my DNA shares 40% of the genetic markers.

With indigenous people from Columbia and Peru. And I didn't know that I had indigenous ancestry before I got these results. It's like a huge, huge thing to my identity. Like what would I do with that? How do I sit with that? And I've actually been sitting or avoiding it, not really thinking about it for, I would say a little over four months now.

Because I got the updated results recently. I was like, Oh, this is surprising. And I asked my parents about it. I was like, Hey, you know, I, I didn't know that this was such a big part of our genetic information, our DNA. Do we know anybody? Like, do we have any traditions? Do we have any, like, do I know any of my ancestors that you know, are direct descendants or have indigenous practices?

And they were like, no, and really in Columbia, it's still very tender and frowned upon to identify as indigenous. And I felt like, because I haven't been living that truth for myself that I could never say “You know, I have indigenous ancestry,” but I actually talked to somebody who practices anti-oppression and restorative justice. And she's also indigenous. And she said that it is actually the purpose of the colonizers, the purpose of colonialism to erase that culture, to erase the language, to erase any connection. And beyond that, to make it painful, to connect that, make it… to dissuade even the idea of wanting to reconnect with that.

And so we had a really interesting discussion about that because you know, it can be very painful for, for example, my grandmother to think about that. I haven't talked to her about it yet. So this is the first time I'm going public with this information really is today, right here. 

Brenda [12:57]: I think it's one of the steps of the unfolding process is kind of naming it, sharing it, making it real.

And the hard realities that come with that relationship to the country, that history, people and family, I think you're naming some really complicated, beautiful and just a lot of heart in that identity. And I appreciate that that will definitely be returning and is in the room.

Right. So identity informs how we show up. Things that are silenced. Things are articulated. And in our third series about Latino, or Latinx, or Latina, or none of the above, that's where you're going to really dive deep in something like that. But I guess I want to start with asking you, what does identity mean?

You just laid out, you know, the personal uncovering of things that have been unspoken and you're trying to familiarize, create that relationship for yourself. What does it mean? What does identity mean for you?

Linet [14:08]: Yeah, I think that's a really great question. You know, in our work, we, obviously, we talk about different identities.

You talk about stereotypes, but there's, you know, defining what identity is, can be very personal. And I really see identity as like, what are your truths, almost, that you feel comfortable with in whatever context you are in. Right? So the things that you feel are either something that maybe somebody else might have imposed on you or that you've just grown with over time?

Like examining gender, for example, I didn't, you know, I didn't step out of the womb and I was like “ha! I am woman. This is what I will be.” You know, have something that, that came to me over time and, you know, Definitely grew up with a Columbian family that has very, you know, binary, gender ideals.

So yeah, so I would say identity is really whatever feels like a, like a truth within the context that you're in. That's how I always see identity. How about you? 

Brenda [15:18]: I agree. And to muddle the waters and to really start to get messy in this conversation is that some of these identities are not my idea.

So me socially. And that's specifically talking about social constructed identity in the U S contract. You mentioned that there are different sentiments in Colombia around claiming say, indigenous identity. There's - not a vortex - there's like a constellation different to the one here in the U S about which identities get which identities are more salient.

And I think in the last. And this question for me of like, what does identity mean is it's? Yeah, it's pretty omplicated, because it means coping with frames of reference that are not mine. Meaning I wouldn't identify as Brown in Mexico, but I do here. I don't identify as… classism is another one that could blur the lines.

But for me, identity in relation to what you're saying is just understanding historical legacies, things that were created by someone else that I'm coping and navigating and coexisting with. And some of those identities that have been really fruitful, my sexuality and I'm covering that has been something that you know, I'm exploring in the U S context.

My indigenous roots and colonized roots are something that crosses over the US and into Mexico. So identity feels very complicated. It also feels very important because some of these identities afford me privilege some of these identities marginalize. These identities don't marginalize me the forces that hold these and ensure that they are not missed, never not in the room and with relationships with community, those identities have been a little bit more complicated.

So I hope that makes sense. And it's a question to just have in the back of our mind, what have been some moments that come up, that are coming up for you as both Linet and I talk. And this is where, one of the things that you said resonate, and you're thinking about a situation, that conversation, that experience of realizing this identity for the first time or articulating that identity for the first time to yourself and to the world, you know, have those be in that room.

We want them here. They're a part of you. And so in this part of the tension, the beauty, the complicated, the history, the, just the existing existence of ourselves as humans with identity, I think it offers us a place to understand our sense of self and sense of belonging. And so we have a personal identity that we grew up with or things that maybe as you were saying, that is, that you don't ever have to question.

Family, friends kind of reinforce those and those were given, or those were defaulted or those were unconsciously learned. And there's also the push and pull of identity and sense of belonging. I think that relationship, that bow is always, like, co-exists and reinforces each other, sometimes reinforces or sometimes there's a huge disconnect of self and community.

Yeah. You know, there's, there's a whole universe in that question, 

Linet [19:10]: yeah, absolutely. I think you picked up on a point that I think is so critical. Well, both, both. I think it's a great observation to notice that a lot of the things that we are identifying with, or a lot of the things that are part of our identities have a history, a rich history may not have been defined by us.

I didn't choose to be Colombian, I was born there. And Columbia was created.

Even that identity is something that's been created for me. I didn't get to choose that. Right. Yeah. And you know, there's also things that we haven't thought about, or things that you mentioned, that sort of started to spark up with me is like, identity can be so critical to defining relationships or even creating connection and those relationships.

Yes. Yeah. 

Brenda [20:05]: Well, I love this activity. Our folks, you know, are able to share this in their meetings relationships. 

Linet [20:14]: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. This is the, I definitely picked it up from, sorry. I think there's either a plane or some thunder about to strike. Absolutely picked up a circle from.... there was this UC Berkeley exploration on gender.

We talked about, you know, when are like the questions around identity, gender identity. And it was the prompts from that, after the circle exercise, were around you know, when was the first time that you remember somebody referred to you in a gendered way? Okay. The first time that somebody referred to your assumed gender in a pejorative way, what was the first time that you felt aligned with a gender?

Just like those kinds of questions to sort of explore like where you've been. So yeah, definitely share the circle. This is a really fun exercise. You know, it's a good icebreaker, even if you, you know, just go light. But definitely, definitely share that. And actually this is a good time for me to share what I have written on the other side, which is if you all are interested in sponsoring a conversation, helping us cover some of the time that we're spending to get these conversations out to you. We'll have some transcripts, they'll go up on our different frogs. If you want to support us go to tinyurl.com/breaking bias. That's all together. Let me see if I can double a hand. So tiny, tinyurl slash. Breaking bias. All one word.

Okay. Posting that into the group. You can sponsor at any amount, if you want to sponsor the whole series, we do have a sponsorship package, your Unconscious Bias Project. We're happy to give you shoutouts on our podcast and on our website. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brenda [22:28]: Thank you Linet. So, how - In this process of figuring out identity, like the beauty, the pain, the opportunity, right?

I want to keep this in a place of seeing it, seeing the mirror first and then seeing yourself. In our work with In.Visible Paradigms, where we work to create transformative spaces for white allies. This is exactly the conversations that we're having as well. 

How have you moved around the world? Where are the places that you don't have to expend energy on? And also what have been opportunities that you seem to want to learn, some of the oppression and colonialism that we've all inherited, that we're all living with, but your identity, parts of your identity and racial basis contributes to those histories.

So that's a lot, but I want to ask you, how do you figure out what your identity is? You started to cover it a little bit more Linet, but you know, what are the places you don't name? Maybe places you hold privilege. Can you talk a little bit more about this moment of identities that I don't have to think about unlearning and learning?

Linet [23:57]: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. So. So, yeah, so the other piece, and really, I kind of think of like identity and privilege, as it's not clear, like, okay, if you're this, then you're not that, right? It's not nearly as, you know, actually it's a, it's a pretty good term, black and white, as it seems right. There can be gradations.

So there's places where we can hold some privilege more than in other places. And when I'm talking about privilege, I'm talking about, you know, do you step into a room and - step, even stepping into a room? Are you stepping into a room? That's, that's holding privilege right there. You don't have to, you know, use a mobility device to get into that room.

You're not on a wheelchair, you don't have crutches or you, you know - so these are the essence of privilege is really the places where, whether you realize it or not, you don't have to defend your identity. You're not seen as somebody speaking for a whole larger group, you are not immediately being dismissed.

You are valued for yourself. As you show up, whatever you tell people is accepted as the truth. You know, you're not gonna like, for example, walk into a store and you won't be followed around asking, are you sure you don't need anything? Are you sure you don't need anything? You give a talk and people listen to you.

You don't get a quote unquote “mansplained.” Somebody doesn't tell you that you're wrong about something that you've experienced in your life. All of these are sort of examples, scenarios in which you have privilege. So to give an example, for example, I talked about myself being a scientist at the beginning, and I faced a lot of misogyny actually in academia, and College and graduate school for being a woman and, you know, as - white passing as I am - for being a woman I was not being believed. And so the places where I hold, where I didn't hold privilege, which is being a woman meant that I had to spend energy, like really critically think, like, how am I going to put forward this idea?

How am I going to say, “Oh, actually that idea is wrong. Or I think this is a better way to do it,” without inviting criticism of my idea, just because it's coming from the voice of a woman. And so I actually tried many different things and what I ended up with and it sounds self-deprecating, but it actually really worked, is to come from thinking, well, you know, I'm not totally sure about this kind of discount myself before I brought up an idea, or I would say I talked to somebody who considers themselves an expert, but I'm also an expert, I would say, well, I'm not totally an expert on this, but I remember reading this paper on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or I could have misremembered this, but I remember blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then of course, you know, either they would feel like, Oh, okay, well I can explain this to her. And then they come around to my point, or I could be like, let me send you that paper that I think mentioned that. And I would send it to them and then they would come around to my point, or I would still be discounted completely until a man or usually a white man would say the same idea. And then that would be taken forward. 

That's an example of where I didn't hold privilege. An example of where I do hold privilege, just coming back to that whole gender idea being cisgender. So I don't have to worry about if I forget to say my pronouns, will people mis-gender me? If I, you know, go into the restroom, are people gonna look at me twice? If I you know, if I decide to go to the park and play with my kid, are people gonna wonder if I'm a sex offender? You know, like these are the kinds of privilege I hold being cisgender. If I go out to the store, if I'm out in public, Do I have a likelihood of experiencing physical violence because I am cisgender, there is some, right?

Yes, because I am, I am a woman and there is like a really high, is it one in four? women experienced sexual violence. Oh, tender. Yeah. For trans women, it's actually really, really hard. It's really, really hard. It's actually - Alexis - if you post in the comment, your recent article there's actually 28 States in the United States where it is still legal to murder a trans woman, simply because you were, Oh my gosh. I'm so surprised they were trans and then that makes it okay. What even is gender? Exactly. How about you, Brenda? How do you think about privilege and how does that play out for you? 

Brenda [29:15]: Yeah, thank you. First of all, I love that you're having this conversation open in public at a zoo. For us, or at least definitely for me as an anti-oppression practitioner, these conversations often happen in closed doors, in trainings and webinars with friends and sometimes in public, right.

There might be some of us that feel like “F that I'm just going to have this big conversation about colonialism and gender.” And that's great, but I just wanted to just say, I love that. But yeah. How do I understand privilege? It is relationship. It is community and it is a commitment. If I am understanding parts of myself that have caused harm parts of myself that just are blocked, meaning I'm not blocked, but -

In my allyship with other identities that I don't have privilege with, there's just limitations and that's okay. There's limitations of not understanding others' experiences, there's limitations of you know, perfectionism like to get out of the way. Understanding privilege is just I'm learning myself and relationship to how I know the world to be, to how I know others to move around the world. And so there's, there's great limitations. It's not a barrier. It's not something that discourages me anymore. It's something that I'm like, okay, I will, I will stay here in this place where I do know in this point of privilege where I can leverage points of privilege, where I can learn.

And so it's almost like there's different Brenda's and these different identities that are just always in conversation and always aware. The reason why we share, I share that I'm a practitioner is that it's an everyday thing and privilege never leaves. It may be out of sight, out of mind for a moment because it's central, the world was made for certain parts of your identity, it's made for those.

It's not out of sight out of mind, but when you are held accountable, when you're learning, when you are moving, creating relationships with the allies and compost, co-conspirator like these parts of your identity you know - I totally forgot where I was going with that. Those parts of the identity are my commitment there, my inherent responsibility to move around the world to make change and to be allowed, to be affected by lessons and grow from those.

And I think privilege often is something that you don't have to think about. We don't really exert a lot of energy into it. And so it is, I would say my relationship to privilege is commitment is responsibility on personal and collective level. Yeah, 

Linet [32:14]: I really see prices for, I hold privilege as an opportunity, right?

Like if there's a space, for example, if there's a space where like, say I’m with my mom, right. And my mom has a very heavy Spanish accent, even though she was the one that taught me English. And if I'm in a space where the majority is white, my mom is browner than me as well. The majority of folks are white.

I am aware of that privilege that I hold as being white passing that I hold in the way I'm able to speak English that I hold in the way that I have intentionally or unintentionally blended in with the majority, to speak up for her, with her. So, you know, if somebody is, you know, discriminating against my mom, for whatever reason, even if it's a slight.

Like she said something and somebody speaks to her slowly in return. It's like, Oh one minute, one moment. She is speaking to you in English, I can say that, right. So I took that as an opportunity. And really as you were talking about unlearning and learning, I love that because that is one of the wonderful opportunities that we have with the magic of the internet.

You know, even though even though we do have privilege, even though we do have, you know, the identities that we can, some of which we can shape to, to own up to them, to own them and really feel them and embody them and others that we can't change because they are placed on us externally. We can't really modify them unless you're going one-on-one.

I really see it as an opportunity for learning. So. One of the things that we teach at the Unconscious Bias Project is: if there is a place where you hold privilege - for example, I mentioned that I'm able-bodied - go ahead and learn from, and listen to the stories, the people that are out there that aren't able-bodied.

So for me, I actually follow quite a few activists on Twitter with disabilities that - they're very vocal. If you, for example, follow #cripthevote. There's a lot of collective political activists on there that are really paying attention and breaking down. Why certain policies, why certain you know, laws or, you know, petitions or even politicians are having an ableist agenda or are maybe unintentionally affecting people with disabilities disproportionately.

And that is one of the many ways that you can engage in that learning and that, we call that “adjusting your media diet.” So whatever you're consuming, you know, try to pick something from, you know, the actual voice of somebody who experiences that other identity that you don't, so you can learn from them.

And then that way, you know, you come with a, with a curiosity, just be open, right? Maybe you thought you knew somebody about somebody with a wheelchair. But now that you're listening like, “Oh, you know, they actually can't get by when I parked, I don't know, in San Francisco, my scooter on the curb,” for example, as an example.

Yeah. I think you wanted to add something. 

Brenda [35:35]: Yeah, I did. The thing you mentioned, something about media consumption, your media diet changing to consume wisely. Because I think when we are unlearning, we get really excited. I know, I get really excited. I've seen white allies get really excited. Like we saw the consequences of some of that excitement without thought, without intention, to the IG black squares.

I've seen it in some of the BIPOC - that is black indigenous people of color - specifically black fem accounts on Instagram, where people are flooding to them. And so, what I would say here as a caveat is like I'm learning and again, to responsibility and commitment, is just showing up even virtually requires a level of respect.

These are still people that have a huge platform coping with the same things that they're trying to You know, their advocacy around. And so don't consume them as just like, give, give, give, give you, give me gimme. But respect that there's a platform that is based on real life experiences, their platform that they've taken their responsibility that they want to share. And so that comes with some really important lessons. 

Linet [37:04]: Hmm. Very good point. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brenda [37:06]: I have a question about like, where does identity show up? We've talked about it here and there, but relationships work. Some identities are more salient in certain places than others, but let's talk about home and this is for me a place that can be really difficult.

I think there's a lot of emotions. There's different experiences in my family. Because of the way that we present or the way that we move our age or gender. So yeah, if you could share a little bit about relationship, talking about privilege and identity at home relationships with friends, what are some of the identities that feel seen in one place?

Or not as prominent in another? 

Linet [38:00]: Yeah, that's a really good question. I feel like I have like a zillion things that I'm thinking about. Okay. I'm going to give one kind of, yeah, I'm going to give one painful example and one joyous example, so one example is - so I said in the beginning that I'm white-passing, I wrote in my little circle of identity exercise. I'm white passing and that's something that I didn't write inside my “how I would introduce myself to others.” And I’m actually the palest person in my family. So my cousins, my sibling, they all have much more melanin than I do. They have much kinkier hair than I do, they have more flared noses than I do. Have darker colored eyes than I do. And one thing that's really salient to me is my grandmother also has really dark skin, definitely, compared to me. And she has been very vocally racist against black folks. This is in Colombia. And even when she's visiting the U S she says the same thing, and it was really when I first heard her say something and it was very hateful - the words were very violent and I remember feeling absolutely shocked when I heard her say that, and confused, because I couldn't compute like  “your kids, my aunt have kinky hair” and I - it came much later in my adult life.

When I realized that erasure of even the slave holding past of the colonizers, you know, the Spanish, is not a very prominent part of the present, that discussion is not very prominent and it leads to the effect much like in the U.S., for a lot of leaders are not people with darker skin where you know, people that will even, going to a store, you'll get discriminated against, very overtly and obviously compared to anywhere else where there's really extreme poverty in areas like the outskirts of Cartagena, where that is predominantly black, that there's a lot of descendants from slaves and freed slaves. And so that was really painful for me when I realized, and also even thinking about the standards of beauty and Columbia, having curly hair, that's a no, everybody that has some amount of money will straighten their hair.

So there's like this absolute erasure. I remember that very, very painfully as an example of identity and relationship, and I'm still working on, “how do I engage with that with my broader family?” My more immediate family are more open to that, but like, how do I even begin to engage with that with my broader family, especially those that still live in Columbia where racism is part of like all the jokes, you know, that even the way you call a phone, like those are all very very much a part of the culture. It doesn't mean it's a good culture. 

A joyous way that I thought about identity is, I have a three-year-old and I get to share with that three-year-ols how to think about the world. Right? That's so exciting. How to understand where they're from, their ancestry, you know their culture and how they can move around the world. And so that's actually been a source of real joy for me of trying to teach my kid Colombian sayings, preparing Colombian food, sharing books, and fables and poems from Columbia, and actually very intentionally looking for kids books that are diverse. And talking to my kid about different bodies and different genders, you know, it's very different in Spanish. There's not there's not a lot of gender neutrality. It's actually super gendered. Every single thing is gendered. The tree is gendered. Like everything is gendered. So I've been teaching them a little bit about, okay, here's how you could have instead of Amigos or Amigas, you can have Amiges and, you know, talk about you know, friends that have two moms, for example, who were really good friends there. And they have two moms and we can talk about that. Like, not everybody has to have a mommy and daddy, not everybody has to have parents like that either. And so that's, that's really a source of joy, of exploring identity for me. 

Brenda [43:27]: Yes. I love it, and I really appreciate the pain. Enjoy the duality of the spectrum that identity can offer us to engage in and we must.

And that responsibility and commitment of learning and what you just mentioned, like, what are you choosing to disrupt things that you inherited, things that are part of your culture. We can talk about ourselves in this context. When you’re talking about that relationship and the Colombian culture and country where it's so normal, I can think about examples in Mexico, which will be a part of our, I think definitely will be in this conversation. We'll be able to really explore in our third series, but nonetheless, the message that I'm hearing, that people I think need to also hear is “what are you choosing to disrupt as you want to learn? What are the disruptions, the transmission of lessons that know that are carrying violent, harmful, oppressive, cultural norms?” And I think that that's really difficult, that we can talk about generations. You just did that, like where elders have a lot of pain in that decision to fight, to, to benefit from Eurocentric Values and ideologies, the cost of anti-blackness.

And so there's also that, what are you choosing to disrupt the transmission of further in the younger  generation that we have in front of us, that you have a beautiful family, you know, Linet. I think it's an important question. And I would like for people to just take a moment to reflect on it, what are you choosing?

To disrupt the transmission of your cultural norms, what is it? What's the cost, you know, of playing into and benefiting and normalizing, normalizing can be staying silent. And I think for me and my family, that feels really difficult. Speaking up could call you in, and like in the work that I do, I have no fear. I have no reservation. I speak because there's actually a greater consequence. If I don't say something, And in family, it's a little hardish. These are people that brought you up. These are people that you lived with, or live with. Lived with,  having your family in your proximity. And there are so many emotions for me that are activated that are really hard when we're talking about anti-blackness, it's really difficult to talk to certain - to my parents about it. I think this year I saw a bit of a change in their perspective around - and I think that was due to what happened last year, and what we're still grappling with, which is the triple pandemic that was the economic, racial, viral pandemic of last year to this day. So I wonder when I was places or when I have been in house places, like what, in this question of, what am I choosing to disrupt, what am I choosing to engage with?

I have to, my point of origin with family when it can be so intense, is get that professionalism strategy, mediation, facilitation technique, and just come from a place of, it sounds really cheesy, but listening to what they're saying without correcting first, without judging, without, you know, X, Y, and Z, because just because we see different realities.

Does it mean that for my parents, there are truths about what choices they had to make in order to survive and live and be in the United States and in Mexico? And so it's, it's a painful one, it's on I’m definitely more timid in than in other places. 

Linet [47:58]: Yeah, I have to say, I think one thing that I've noticed since the triple pandemic, as you call it - I like that term - since the triple pandemic are people telling me, “Oh, thank you for what you do.” And it's like, I appreciate where they're coming from. I appreciate that fully. And I also want to say, it's not like we're here, you know? Ooh, being super anti-racism all the time. It’s a cross for us. 

Right. There's energy. There's thought there's learning. There's unlearning, there's practice. There's vulnerability of putting ourselves out there and being that one person to speak up or being that person that's like, okay, I am putting my whole being out here to help you see some of these things that maybe you've been assuming, or that you didn't realize you were participating in.

And so it's hard. So I would say, in understanding of your shyness is like, we have to choose right? When we engage, and protect ourselves as we're doing it right. Even you mentioned the folks, on their large, like Instagram or Twitter platforms, people are flocking to them.

It takes energy for them to be out there and put themselves out there. And it isn't their responsibility to teach every single one of their followers how to be. They're human beings too. It takes energy for them to do what they're doing to even like activists, people that are out there that are doing this in our, as our work, as our profession, as our day to day, you know, I can't turn off what I've learned.

Right? But I can choose to say like, okay, this is a moment for, I'm going to engage with a stranger or this - some woman where I'm going to engage with this family member or with my partner to teach them about something that could be difficult for them. Right? And I think sort of that self-awareness of yourself, your own emotion in your body is really key in this kind of work.

Brenda [50:12]: Absolutely. I did the window of tolerance with my family. That was a Christmas gift that I gave them, which is understanding your point of activation and what happens in our unique bodies. Everyone has a different window of tolerance, there's moments where we can have these conversations and be really activated.

Depending on the context that we're in, depending on the traumas that are  living, being touched on and also the moments that we need to take care of ourselves. And I think that's been really important for me and my family about like, what are you feeling right now? Like checking in to what your experience of the conversation is.

I think that's relational, that is relationship at its core. It is the source of the opportunity for change of each other. Don't just come into it with a one direction binary of “I know. And you don't know.” It's something that you said - I also want to highlight that my timidness is a choice.

It's something that I battled with. It's something that I judge myself on so much sometimes, but that choice has a consequence. When I don't speak up or call in or check in, it's a consequence that will underpin my next interaction because my body's feeling angry. I don't say anything.

That's going to surface one more time in my next conversation. And I think, for white allies in our work, that is a call to action that I have on a personal level is how are you understanding yourself with your experience as an ally, but in conversations with other white folks. Notice all the range of emotions that may take place, and just really slow down to check in. 

That is an opportunity to use privilege on an interpersonal level to disrupt some of the norms around rushing, past this, getting angry, getting defensive and I also want to just share that you, coming into this ID, live recording, thank you for being here.

And I hope that you continue to use your circle of proximity, starting with yourself, starting with the relationships that you have comfort, where you can really push that barrier and also not forgetting the relationships that you may not experience the same. Those are still important. Your circle of proximity is different at nine and we need to work on relational conversations of change more than we think  for this work.

Linet [53:02]: Absolutely. Great. Great summary. I love it. I love it's really good. Really good. 

Brenda [53:08]: Linet, we are - you thought about these sessions as being like 20 minutes and then an hour flew by, and again, thank you all for coming into this room in this space, whether you're at the zoo with Linet, as you're resonating with things that she's saying. Or with me in the office. Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation. Rewind briefly ,reiterate some of the questions that we have.

I feel like maybe we can close our space. 

Linet [53:48]: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Would you like to lead us in a little breath to resettle and head out? 

Brenda [53:57]: Yeah. So if you're able to, you were just experiencing listening in, watching a conversation through a lot of personal and really important questions to reflect on.

You’re about to move into another space. So this recalibration activity is to just return you back to return to your space. So we're going to take a deep breath in. Okay.

Maybe take a look to the left notice, look to the right. You can look up and back to center.

Thank you so much, everyone. 

Thank you, Linet. Yeah. 

Linet [54:49]: Thank you so much for joining us. Next Friday, we'll be here one more time at 4:00 PM Eastern 1:00 PM Pacific. And we're going to talk about identity - seen and unseen. 

Brenda [55:07]: Yes, known, unknown, spoken,  silenced, seen, all of these things.

So we're going to go into some of those topics that we just mapped today. Thank you all so much for today. And I look forward to connecting with you all next Friday. 

Linet [55:25]: Hello, good day. Thank you so much, Brenda. Thanks everybody. Bye.